Column: Christian support for marriage equality in Maine

I agree that we should love the sinner and hate the sin, but a reading of the books of 1st and 2nd Kings and 1st and 2nd Chronicles reveal that the deviating from God’s law and allowing the worship of other gods (homosexuality, abortion (see molech))results in the decline of society. God gave us this country because the Puritans and the founders honored God and his word. Since the mid to late 18oo’s we have allowed this sin to enter our country and now we are paying the price. God is at work in the midst but to condone this behavior because people shed tears is wrong. People shed tears becasue they hurt, just like a child does when a loving father or mother spanks him for misbehaving. I love you brother but I believe you need to tighten up and take a stand for the Truth.
God bless you,
John

John,

You forgot “wearing poly-blended fabric, eating shellfish, praying in public, eating bacon, and all expressions of lust,” in your list of deviations from God’s Law.

John, I think you missed his point, Tyler is not saying that homosexuality is right (he actually states quite the opposite), but to use legislation to convert people simply won’t be effective. This is an issue that needs be addressed, but whether or not it is legal will not change how we as Christians should proceed. We can get so caught up trying to change the morals of the world around us through laws that we neglect the only power that can actually do anything: God. As Christians we are held to a different standard. Our focus needs to be on God and teaching people about him, not mandating our beliefs through the government.

Excellent point, David, I appreciate your support. John, although you make a rational argument, I must further question your premise. There are many things already allowed by the laws of the United States that contradict God’s perfect law. If we were to follow your general premise to its conclusion, then we would be forced to not just outlaw gay marriage, but also make homosexuality itself a crime. In fact, pre-marital sex, abortion, and many other sins (pride, hate,lust) would have to be criminalized. Christians in general are being very vocal about the law not condoning homosexuality, but I’ve never heard anyone argue the same about pre-marital sex or adultery, which is similarly “condoned.” David makes the excellent point that we need to accept that only God, not legislation, has the power to change people. We also should be aware of what this apparent double standard conveys to those on the other side of the issue. Thanks again for your thoughts and the loving way you presented them, John.

I’d like to ask a critical question: Is it really the mission of anti-gay marriage activists to turn homosexuals into heterosexuals? I don’t think due consideration is being given to such a movement.

I agree–we’re not here to build an “earthly” kingdom of God, nor are we here to force conversion through legislation. That was never the point to begin with. The schism between these two philosophies, I think, lies at at least 3 points:

#1: Is there a negative social impact in legalizing gay marriage?

#2: Is the legalization of other sins a justification for legalizing more?

#3: Do all people have the right to (a) vote and (b) vote their consciences to impact the society in which they live?

Indeed, maybe some people may have the “take over the world for Christ” mentality of which you speak, and unfortunate sins are already committed. However, that’s not going to change my vote (and should it?).

God bless,

Keith

It is true that the Bible reveals that deviating from God’s law results in the decline of society. It also explicitly states in Leviticus 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such thing is an abomination.” However, considering that this is the same source that states, in Exodus 35:2, “On six days work may be done, but the seventh day shall be sacred to you as the sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on that day shall be put to death.” My friend often supplements her retirement income by giving art lessons on the weekend. Clearly I should put her to death. In Leviticus 11:7-8 it states, “…and the pig, which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you.
8 Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you.”Is it ok for the all the football players in this country to continue to play if they promise to wear gloves? My academic adviser has a daughter, perhaps you do too. What do you think he would say about Exodus 21:7, “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go free as male slaves do.” Do you think he would ask what a good price would be for her? Would you? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Please think about how we are letting society decline by not adhering, and deviating from God’s law.

Note: the above references are from The New American Bible Translated from the original Languages with Critical Use of All the Ancient Sources by Members of the Catholic Biblical Association of America Copyright 1970.

While the Bible does prohibit sex between men (homosexuality), it can nevertheless be shown that the prohibition does not apply today when the sexual activity causes no harm. Also, the prohibition does not apply today because it applied only to the ancient Israelite and Greco-Roman cultures. The Bible criticizes, but does not prohibit, sex between women. Full reasons for these conclusions are given on the “Gay and Christian” website (www.gaysandslaves.com).

I just wanted to point out that, yes Christian opponents of same-sex marriage are alienating non-Christians; however, they are also rejecting a large number of Christian gays and lesbians.

A difficult position to take given the ferocity of the poles, yet one we should carefully consider–daily: fairness and compassion trumps any perception of moral superiority. Isn’t that exactly what Jesus would do? Live fairness and compassion; pray about morality.

Great Job! Your article accurately positions what the attitude and the behavior Christians should exhibit towards our gay and lesbians brothers/sisters in Christ.

However you kind of stray from the original point of your article which was supposed to be same-sex marriage. The issue which you have not addressed is why Christians are opposed to same-sex marriage not homosexuality.

For me, it is because marriage from a biblical non-secular standpoint, is something only possible through the union of a man and a woman as modeled by God through Adam and Eve. As far as the tax advantages and status of gay/lesbians forming a union, I say more power to them. However, I would caution that this may serve to construct barriers that may make repentance down the road a bit tricky. God also hates divorce and sadly the rates for Christian divorce closely match the secular.

So long as the distinction can be made between a marriage under God and a secular one, I would have no problem celebrating gay and lesbian couples making this commitment. Since this is not the goal of the law, I will vote against it until the proper one can be submitted.

I guess you missed my point. When Christ died for my sins and I believed in what he did I received Him and a baptism of the Holy Spirit. The Book of Romans declares that at that point the law convicted me of my need for a Savior and what Jesus did on the cross freed me from the law and made me righteous before God. The grace not the law are we saved however, if Christ is in us, our lives should reflect and mirror Jesus’. I agree that it cannot be legislated but to accept homosexual marriage is to destroy the traditional family and remove that part of the law that would convict someone to ask for God’s grace through Jesus Christ.

The law (ten commandments not diet) is our boundry and we cannot change it.

John

Hey Ian,

Just to clarify,the original point of my article was to express my concerns about the message same-sex marriage opponents are conveying, and to show an important part of the Christian faith that I believe is being lost. This what I wanted to write about and what I did write about. The title you see was added by editorial staff prior to publication and was very different than my original title. Newspaper editors do have the right to change article titles and often do. I’m not sure exactly why they changed mine, but I appreciate that it does make it appear that perhaps I strayed from my original point. Again, I just wanted to clarify that in fact, I did not.

Yeah. I figured as much. Catchy titles promote readership. For what you wrote about I think you did an excellent job. Kudos

My partner and I live in Florida. We went to Massachusetts last year to get married. We actually went twice — once to register to get married and then again to actually get married. (There was a waiting period for all marriages. Due to work, we could not stay there longer, so we had to make two trips.)

We are both Christians — but that is really no one’s business. We are both gay — and that is no one’s business.

We are over 18, we work very hard, we pay our taxes, we volunteer in our neighborhood, etc. We are EXCELLENT Americans. We are excellent citizens. We are not asking for any church to recognize our marriage. We ARE asking that we have the same rights as others.

When I croak, my partner cannot get my social security benefits (and no contract will do this, so please don’t say that we just need a lawyer to draw up a document). I want to be able to visit my partner in the hospital with no problems. We want to file a joint tax return; now we’re having to pay more taxes than other couples.

Everyone can have their beliefs, but this is not a religious question now. It’s a legal one. This isn’t going to affect your churches. Women have had equal rights for some time, but how many female priests do you see? And what is the last time that a Jewish synagogue married two Baptists?

Please vote. Please vote for all Americans. We’re really counting on you!

To be honest, it really doesn’t matter if the Christian faith places any spiritual validity in these unions or not. Many of these couples are not asking for a union under God, but a union recognized by the government. In our legal system, it shouldn’t matter what the Bible or any other religious text says, and the fact that a religious document holds so much legal say in a government that ideally operates apart from religion is truly terrifying.

When I say marriage, I mean a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates legal kinship.

Marriage in that sense is not an exclusive Christian concept, it exists in many cultures that have little to do with Christianity, and to say otherwise shows a great deal of ignorance.

This bill is about gay couples seeking a legal union through the state, gaining what is (perhaps mistakenly) called a marriage license. Christians do not have to consider them wed in their church, just as another religion may not consider a Christian wedding valid in their own beliefs.

These marriages are about gaining equal protection for all families in the American legal system, not the house of God.

exactly. Everyone knows this I think and for my part I don’t believe many or even most Christians oppose extending legal rights to any two persons regardless of sexual orientation including myself.

However, the valid dilemma for “some” Christians is whether or not they will vote to further the cause of what is considered a sinful agenda (also choose to gamble, choose to do drugs etc..) and irregardless of what the “separation of church and state” clause says your fundamental belief structure regardless of what it is will always be number one. This is true everywhere in the world and causes a lot of problems sometimes.

This is what is backing up the Christian vote in my opinion more so than the sharing the word “marriage”. Marriage has strong gender role implications and would be another reason for why some tend to wince at this bill. In all honesty, let us let democracy do its thing. Quite honestly, in Maine do you really feel like the bill wont pass?

Ian, my fear is that people WILL vote yes… and that it WILL pass. Yes, that is exactly my fear.

In the name of religion… When I was a child growing up in Mississippi and Louisiana, how often did I hear people say that interracial mixing of any kind (forget about marriage!) was wrong because it was against God’s natural order. Gosh, if I had a nickel for every time I heard my grandparents condone keeping the races apart as we all sat around the dinner table after going to Sunday mass, well, I’d be much richer.

Our vote in Florida last year lost 62-38. We only needed 40% to block the amendment (not 50% as you guys require). We were so close.

I dream that one day this won’t matter. In the meantime, I write letters to editors and talk to as many people as I can. Silence is THE problem. Please tell a friend to vote NO on Question 1.