Op-Ed: Thinking of joining the service? Maybe you should reconsider

I appreciate your point of view and it is clearly true in a place like America. But the world outside America is not so safe. How do you suppose those peaceful organizations you describe get around in Iraq or Afghanistan, in perimeters of these automaton soldiers (worse but more common Blackwater security)you are describing. I joined the Army before the war on Terror when soldiers went to Somalia to feed children and Bosnia to stop ethnic cleansing. Trust me I believe in critical thinking about this war and I would appreciate any peaceful solutions you might offer to eliminate Al Quaeda.
What do you suppose we, that is Americans, are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Raping and pillaging? That is absurd. We would love to throw our weapons down and simply build schools in these countries. But men would kill us and summarily replace our schools with ones that subjugate women and teach the killing of religious opponents.
The real point here is that we are people and we are trying our best to make a better world. We haven’t simply sat here in Maine commenting on the world around us. We have seen it. It isn’t so simple as you say. You would be better to not simplify us, we are individuals.
I encourage others to join the peace Corps, AmeriCorps, and the Department of sate. These brave organizations themselves cannot function without armed support. But these are not the only peace advocates. The Army Chief of Staff General Shinseki, now the head of the Department of Veterans affairs , lost his job for his opposition of the plan for the invasion of Iraq. General David Petraeus has shifted Army doctrine in Counterinsurgency from one of offensive operations to one that secures the safety and livelihood of the local population.
I am a veteran and yes I have been forced to kill others. But no country made me do it, circumstance did. Like it or not people hate us and will stop at nothing to do us harm. I may never truly forgive myself for taking other men’s lives but days after, I saw something new happening in Iraq. Girls and women were walking to school unafraid. I will live with my guilt forever but if it brought those children hope, that they might be freed from oppression then my guilt is a small price to pay.
Make no mistake about it, this is all tragic. But a large portion of the world lives by the gun and you won’t bring peace, reconciliation and education without a gun in your hand or in the hands of a protector.
We are people to Mr. Gibson and we want what’s best for tomorrow. We are are individuals with multiple outlooks. You would be wise to not make sweeping generalizations.

Weren’t women and girls attending schools in Iraq before the invasion? Why do we have to rebuild schools in Iraq now, what happened to them to cause them to be rebuilt? What did the war in Iraq really accomplish? To argue that the military does no good in this world is as plainly ignorant as arguing that military intervention was required in places like Vietnam and Iraq. Vietnam and Iraq were absolute travesties and misallocation of US resources and more important than resources; the lives of US Soldiers. I however respect the contributions of the individuals serving in our armed forces, and do not lay blame at their feet, but the feet of the politicians who feel compelled to send them into the breech when unnecessary.

I believe that women and girls were not attending schools, not without risking their relative degree of safety. The middle east, in general, is not a place that values equality between men and women. Beware of people who think this is not a problem, like some professors at this school.

We have a military for a number of different reasons and there are many people who enjoy (Yes, I said enjoy) military life.

I’m indifferent when it comes to the service, but this piece on the decision to join the military is too shallow. It doesn’t bring up anything that hasn’t already been said many times before and it makes me wonder what the author is trying to convince us of. He isn’t relaying any new information.

Contrary to Veruca Salt, a military cannot be created in a matter of minutes. It is something that must be constantly maintained, for when it is needed it is already too late to start thinking about. Perhaps because there is nothing selfish about serving one’s country makes it a bitter pill for today’s average undergraduate, the undergraduate who thinks that they deserve everything outright, just because.

It is my opinion that the only thing that the author ought to be saying about the military is “Thank you. Thank you for doing this so that I don’t have to, so that I don’t have to be afraid.”

I’m not in the military, but I appreciate those who are and I wouldn’t discourage others from making that sacrifice precisely because, I don’t want to do it myself.

Finally, joining ROTC is nothing like enlisting in the military, nothing. The author is incorrect to assert that ROTC will tell you when to eat, sleep, and flush.

ROTC is a great way to find out if you like military life, and you might just like it. You might not make money, but you will certainly improve yourself both physically and mentally, regardless of whether you ever go to war or not. If you do go to war it will be because you decided to go, not because anyone tricked you into it. The last thing that the military wants is people who do not want to be there, bringing down morale.

Please get the facts, author. It is hard to believe that this article was even written considering the impetus was on campus ROTC recruitment, not enlistment.

Michael,

Thank you for writing this editorial. The anti-war effort is embarrasingly anemic on this campus. Perhaps your Op-Ed will change that by awakening students to the stark realities of war. Those still not dissuaded from joining the military should read Chris Hedges’ excellent book, “War is a Force That Gives Us Meaning.” The book is a first-hand account of Hedges’ experiences as a New York Times foreign correspondent, covering conflicts in Bosnia, El Salvador, and the Middle East.

Anyway, I really appreciated your editorial.

I also appreciated your article. You made some pretty bold statements in my opinion, but I agree that our campus’ voice for anti-war agenda is lacking. It is important to point that the benefits that ROTC advertises- paying for school, leadership experience ect. have become what we as students associate to ROTC and use as reasons to think that participating is a good thing- We need to remember the original reason of why they are recruiting.

Actually you are wrong about Iraq, more women attended school before the invasion than after. Saddam actually required all children to go to school. I understand the confusion because people who like to believe that the Iraq war was necessary generally view all middle eastern countries as one monolithic culture when it is not. We could easily get by with a reduced standing Army, if we maintained a bare minimum amount of resources it might in actuality be a good thing because it would force the people who make decisions to sacrifice the lives of our soldiers take a long range approach to it. It would give the public the time to think about the ramifications of a pending war and not to mention save hundreds of billions of dollars every year.

Hello,
not sure where you are getting your information, but a quick check on google brought a wikipedia article which states that there was a large disparity in education between the two genders starting sometime soon after Iraq decided to war with Iran, and education is not the only area where females suffer. I didn’t check the primary sources for the wikipedia article, but you can if you find the information in question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Iraq

Also, I disagree with your assertion that we could get by with a reduced standing army. As you can see, the United States went to war with Iraq and then Afghanistan and it suffered for it. Iraq and Afghanistan are not exactly hard targets to take down compared to others.

I’d be happier if there were no war, ever, but since that is highly unlikely I’m happy that there are people in my country who are willing to do the hard work.

Finally, the money argument is weak. I’d say that billions of dollars per year spent in Iraq and Afghanistan is better than hundreds of billions to Goldman Sachs, Citibank, Wachovia, etc.

Money will be spent, regardless.

Again, I’d rather there is no war, but there is war. Someone needs to do it and it might as well be a college student with an overpriced, undervalued degree.

Best.

Niel, actually the gender gap began in 1991 after the first Gulf War with America. The gap that you reference was 95% of Males attended and 80% of females attended. Terrible to be sure but not the backwards place you portray it to be and very progressive. The article further states that since the Invasion of Iraq girls are having a tendency to fully drop out as their schools were bombed where the males were simply displaced. Once again this is poor rationalizing of our reasons for invading Iraq, truth of the matter is there was no justification for it then and there is none now.

Afghanistan has never been a country easily conquered and your referring to it as a push over is an absolute insult to military families like mine who have sent loved ones over there and lost people close to us. My brother’s ‘Battle Buddy’ from basic training did not come back from there and my brother is still working on getting over being there himself.

I stand by for the need for a reduced standing Army because hopefully this will cause Congress to pause before committing any troops to unnecessary wars like Iraq and unwinnable situations like Afghanistan.

I don’t know why you would say that Iraq was or is very progressive. Maybe we don’t share the same definition of progressive. 

In any event, I don’t want to argue the merits of the war because that wasn’t what the piece was about.

I stand by my statements and hope you and your family are able to reconcile whatever participation you’ve had. As I said before, thanks go out to your family for serving. Whether or not you are happy about it now is not anything anyone can solve, but we can appreciate your brother’s effort, and I do. Hopefully your brother still derives something of value from his experience, something related to what brought him to serve in the first place. 

I also appreciate that people choose to join the military, and are not forced to do so.

I never said that Afghanistan was a push over, so I don’t know where you are getting that from. I would say that if you think that Afghanistan is a difficult situation, what do you think a war with a country that actually has a modern military would be like?

Honestly, it sounds as if you are unhappy with the cost of military service on you and your family, and that is understandable, especially if you are unlucky (although it sounds as if you were not).

In any event, it is all academic, because we don’t make policy!

Best to you and your family and thank you again for doing something that I myself was not prepared to do.

Niel
Sent from phone

“Iraq and Afghanistan are not exactly hard targets to take down compared to others.”
Was your exact quote. Afghanistan which was more responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union than the United States. Afghanistan that nearly brought down Britain in the 1800′s. Afghanistan that our Army is currently bogged down in and quite likely losing. But you know, it is an easy target to take down.

I understand how you mistook what I wrote, but if you read it again, what I wrote is sensical.

In any event, if you believe Afghanistan to be such a fierce enemy of our country, such a powerful danger, then you don’t want to see the U.S. have a reduced military. We ought to be encouraging those with a desire to protect us against the insurmountable Afghanis who broke the will of the rest of the world.

Happy Thanksgiving

Mr. Gibson: I read your article and I can only reach one conclusion, you have no idea of what you are talking about and you value system is completley lacking any morale compass.

I have no problem with people voicing their opinions about any subject that they feel compelled to investigate, understand and become knowledgeable about. You make it clear several times that you have no knowledge about the subject matter.You have taken a worthy subject, ROTC and confused it with so many other issues it becomes difficult to figure out where to begin with a counterpoint. Let me say this, that for someone who doesn’t understand the difference between enlisting and ROTC to criticize the ROTC program is completely idiotic. Why don’t you just find a few Veterans who had the courage to join the Armed Services and THANK them. Thank them for protecting you’re right to post comments that attack their ability to make a decision without your silly little OP-Ed.
At least be honest and call it an IG-ed.

Michael,

I remember you once sitting in my living room, sharing with me that you respected and supported every last soldier for what they’re doing.

Either you were lying to myself and my roommates (who are all currently serving soldiers, enlisted and in ROTC), or you’re simply trying to create a stink and cause people to become upset.

I also remember you sharing that you tried enlisting, and were refused because of your asthma. Your argument lost a lot of merit.

Hey Mike,
maybe if you’d have joined the service they probably would have taught you how to avoid breaking and entering.

Then you wouldn’t be going to court for it.