Op-Ed: Take time off during spring break and learn about Zeitgeist Day

I motion that henceforth Michael W. Gibson be banned from publishing opinions in the Maine Campus.

I motion that Michael W. Gibson be president of your news report ..no, but really why banned him? I will attend Zday on NYC main event.

University students admitting they are members of the Zeitgeist movement … this is why I have little faith left in the quality of post-secondary education. Seriously, university is supposed to be the bastion of knowledge and critical thought, not the breeding ground for mindnumbing rubbish like this.

Maybe you should watch the film and listen to the lectures that have been made outlining what we are about before you blindly attack the movement.

C+M, What an intelligent and well thought out comment. I agree, post secondary education should teach people to deliver empty baseless attacks like yours. Maybe you should be a professor.

Or I guess you can just keep spewing your vacuous opinions based on your backward cultural conditioning. What ever works.

I have watched the films, they are ridiculous. Full of holes and lacking any meaningful substance. Its a feel good idea that goes nowhere in reality.

I have also participated in discussions with many members. Whenever I dig into the details I never get any answers, just insults and avoidance. So you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t feel like getting indepth for the millionth goddamn time.

If you say so, guy.

If you’re not going to actually attack any of its ideas, why waste your time commenting at all. I cant really think of anything more pointless. I’m sure you have better things to do than make unsupported comments on the internet. You could have even spent that time watching porn and maybe you’d be less grumpy.

Though, I’m going to have to call you out. I dont think you’ve dug into details with anyone who really understands the ideas behind the movement. Myself and everyone I know that has put some work into it loves going into details, being questioned and being ‘attacked’. It sharpens the ideas and makes them better or gets rid of them. That is really the central idea behind the zeitgeist movement. Going beyond name calling and ideological programing and moving into reality based decisions.

But hey, its the internet. Its hard to expect most people to act like rational human beings on the internet. Something in the code must turn people into trolls and hate spewing machines.

I couldn’t have said it best Kurt.

Thanks.

And has anyone else noticed this is pretty much the only news story on Z-day anywhere on the internet.

I’ve searched google news for ‘zday’, ‘z day’ and ‘zeitgeist day’ and this is the only news blurb that pops up along with 1 or 2 other really small local blogs. There’s not even anything on the New york meeting.

I usually don’t buy into the idea of this much mass media control, but it just seems weird. Absolutely no major media coverage what so ever.

I may take a few days for articles to start coming out. I hope

Alright, i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you can answer some questions I have. Heres a few things in which I have never recieved a quality answer to:

What about scarce resources? There will be many things that will always remain scarce. It could be everything from celebrities, to historical artifacts, to property in specific locales. It could even just be anything made out of rare/finite materials. The second there is any scarcity, who determines who gets what (who has such authority)? And who will stop people, once they have been denied, from setting up a market for such things?

On a related note, what will stop people from acquiring and claiming property? Say I have a house that’s been in my family for generations. Someone else really wants it, so they move in and try to invade my personal space, hoping I will pack up and leave. Now since there is no property I have no protection against such a thing. How will this not lead to people claiming property. Lots of people will want privacy, so whats stopping them from paying someone to keep everyone else out? Or even wrose, whats stopping people from taking others by force?

Whats stoping violence in general? What will stop a deranged cult from molesting children in their village if there is no authority anywhere to stop them?

And please don’t respond with “this will never happen” line, because I have recieved it many times before and it does not suffice. It is incredibly niave to think all of humanity (billions of people) will all be on their best behaviour all the time simply because you assume so. Its a big place out there, shit will happen.

@C+M

BY THE WAY, all the questions you have just asked has been properly answered countless times. Peter has answered all these questions on the radio address: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-joseph

If you have not done so please watch the Orientation Guide : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ngs-tOybJc

and some of Peter j. Lectures: Google: Where are we going lecture by peter j, and Where are we now by peter j.

“What about scarce resources? There will be many things that will always remain scarce. It could be everything from celebrities, to historical artifacts, to property in specific locales.”

Why would you horde historical artifacts if their is no monetary value to it? It should be put in a museum for all to see, and if the person is approached by the museum and he says “No I want to keep it to my self”, his quote would be published on the news. His family and friends would love. These materialistic values will not exist. In many ways it’s a burden to want to horde things, for example: When you go to a golf course to play golf, you will have access to the best designed golf club sets, and their will be more then enough golf clubs for everyone because we can stock the club house with enough club sets to meet demand based on demand trends from that area. Why would you want to store golf clubs in your house? When you can have access to them whenever you needed them at ANY golf course you choose to play ?

“CELEBRITIES” ???? WHATTTT???? Idolization of celebrities are a product of this society.

Actually let me give you an example of a very popular musician, as I am sure their will be MANY. Let’s say this popular band is having a world wide tour. Now, the tour will truly be world wide for their is no money, transportation, or anything else restricting the band or the people from going to the concert. Let’s say the band doesn’t want to cover a certain area because it didn’t fit into their schedule and you live in that certain area. Simple, you would just hop on a maglev train (or whatever means of transportation the future will bring) and you go to the nearest country to you. NO PASSPORTS NO VISAS, NO BULLSHIT.

As far as property in a specific locale. Not everyone has the same taste, some people like city living others like island living. Some people may not like hurricane or earthquake areas (which we would try to avoid building cities in those areas anyways lol ), and some people may not like living in cold places, others might like the diversity in the northern hemispheres weather. Cities would be built to accommodate population trends, for example: If there is more people moving to particular area, a computer system would predict, through trend analysis, that an increase in food production, and housing is necessary by a certain date in the future in order to accommodate for the trends, then scientist would go to work on resolving the issue way before it even becomes an issue.

“Scarcity” of the necessities of live will not exist. We will be able to predict scarcity of natural goods and services in advance through trend analysis and come up with synthetic alternatives if necessary.

“On a related note, what will stop people from acquiring and claiming property?”

WHY would you have to steal a TV or someone’s house if you have access to the same TV free of charge of course, and the same house (if you wanted it). Even if someone stole it, they wouldn’t be able to sell ? It’s a non issue in a resource based economy. Property comes about through scarcity which is what our system perpetuates today because scarcity is profitable the more abundant something is, the less it is worth. The lower the production of oil the higher the prices, remember what happened a not to long ago ? Oil prices sky rocket and Oil companies reported MAJOR profits. Another example is the following: If there was only one orange left in the world, that orange would be worth MILLIONS of dollars. I hope you get my point.

Well, some of those questions show some misunderstanding of what the zeitgeist movement is advocating…but thats a good thing. Maybe you’re not against it after all. Anyway, I’ll try and put in some effort here even though you’re just some guy on the internet. And if you dont like the answers, let me know where I failed to explain well enough and I will try to explain myself better or maybe even end up agreeing with you.

Ok, first things first. There are no set in stone answers. Remember when you ask those questions, ask them of the current society as well and see if you honestly like those answers.

“What about scarce resources? The second there is any scarcity, who determines who gets what”

Logic. This isnt a hard question. We either come up with a rational solution where everyone feels they are getting a fair deal or we can have a war about it. Hmm, which one seems better? – Why cant you buy or ride a 2 stroke vehicle on the road anymore? How did they come to that decision? Was it unfair for them to take away your right to use 2 stroke engines in your vehicles? Or was it good for all of us even though your right to have a 200 pound 200 hp motorcycle was taken away?

More importantly how is resource allocation and use decided right now? Is there any logic behind it at all? Any long term planning? Or is it just what makes money right now?

There are many many answers to your question that we could try and it would be hard not to find a solution that isnt better than what we do now, but lets also ask what can we make non scarce? What can we make as abundant as water with minimal long term labor? Food-easily. Energy- ridiculously easy. Housing- easy. Why shouldn’t we do that? Because it would screw up the economy? Imaginary market forces that have nothing to do with the reality of the situation? Imaginary debt?

What we come up with for who gets jets skis if you really really felt like you wanted or deserved your own will have to be figured out when we get there. All your questions, if not framed around money, are just fun problems. If something we like is scarce, and there is no money to be made from keeping it that way, then there is no obstacle to coming up with solutions or alternatives to the problems. Look what we did when rubber became scarce….synthetic rubber! amazing!

As for what is to stop people from acting like jack asses? This is where I think you must have started day dreaming during the movie or presentation.

Eventually maybe we will move past this stuff as a species but No one is advocating no laws, or no police, or no courts. Its not some anarchist movement.

No is saying lets just instantly move to no property and ignore all history. No one will want your house. Better, more efficient houses will be built and after you’re dead(old age) no one will have sentimental attachment to yours. Maybe we’d keep it for historical reasons or something. No one is advocating living in communal spaces where people just come in a squat in your living room. No one wants to uproot anyones lives. Though the direction the current system is heading will have you out of your house in no time….but feel free to keep supporting it.

Besides, do any real introspection and in the absence of all the usual scarcities and fear, owner ship is a burden. It adds nothing to your person or your happiness.

The bottom line is money lets us do things we cant and shouldnt do because we dont have the resources for it while simultaneously keeping us from doing things we can and should do. Like building crap that doesnt wear out on purpose(if you work in engineering you know they consider a good engineer to be someone who designs a product that wears out right after the warranty expires), or, you know, feed and house people. Less than 5% of the empty vacant real estate in the US would house all the homeless(I think its closer to 1% but I dont want to risk exaggerating). And you know how lots of people are hungry? Our government pays farmers to destroy crops if food supplies get too high because it screws up the economy.

Anyway, not sure if i stayed on track enough to answer your questions. Its hard to explain this stuff out side of a real time conversation.

Bottom line is, if you think what we’ve got going on now isnt the most corrupt and morally bankrupt system of government a modern society could have, then you’re delusional. All developed nation’s politics and foreign policies are dictated by money, engineered debt, and artificial scarcity of basic goods and services. Its sick. The Venus project is about coming up with solutions. They dont claim to have all the answers but our current system keeps us from implementing any.

@Diego

I’ve been through all of those and the answers have always been so vague. Many times he just states that things will work a certain way without demonstrating how or why in depth.

“”“Why would you horde historical artifacts if their is no monetary value to it?””"

Please don’t act like you speak for all of humanity. I know plenty of people who collect all sorts of stuff that I see as “worthless” that they treasure. Why? Maybe they find it interesting, maybe they are nuts, who knows. And of course these things will still hold value, because collectors will still want to trade them on a market (since they are unique and rare). All You can’t go around assuming peopel will behave a certain way because you think they SHOULD

“”“It should be put in a museum for all to see””"”

Yes, maybe it “should” by your standards, but who has the authority to put it in a museum?

“”", and if the person is approached by the museum and he says “No I want to keep it to my self”, his quote would be published on the news.””"”

Who says the family, or the community for that matter will care? What if its a settlement with a rich family history in archieology, or they just value privacy ad a cultural norm. And, lets say they do listen to the news, its this sort of societal pressure (turning peopel against eachother) that will no doubt lead to people isolating themselves off with property and security.

“”"“CELEBRITIES” ???? WHATTTT???? Idolization of celebrities are a product of this society.””"”

Again, stop acting like the spokesperson for humanity. Peopel will always idolize many things. What if someone has a good voice and puts on a good performance. What is suddenly going to make people not want to take in entertainment? And what will stop people from following celebrities careers? People might find them attractive, or maybe they are from their hometown so they want to stay tuned through gossip tv, etc. And how will you stop any sort of “culture” globally? With no authority, there is no standardized curriculum, thus meaning many different cultural norms will remain and be created all over the world. You will not be able to stop it.

“”“Now, the tour will truly be world wide for their is no money, transportation, or anything else restricting the band or the people from going to the concert …and you go to the nearest country to you.””"”"

People will still pay for front row seats (or seats with a view at all), VIPs, private concerts. Also remember performers only have so much time in their schedule. This is what I mean by scarce. Some things will always have limits, and therefore markets for them.

“”“ NO PASSPORTS NO VISAS, NO BULLSHIT.””"

No security? What if there death threats against the band? Who will protect them? Will they be able to hire their own security, like in a market?

“”“a computer system would predict, through trend analysis, that an increase in food production, and housing is necessary by a certain date in the future in order to accommodate for the trends, then scientist would go to work on resolving the issue way before it even becomes an issue.””"

That won’t work because there will always be only a certain amount of land to build on certain beaches, or in certain landscapes, especially if some people want Mansions and Villas (especially old antique ones with history)all to themselves and their families. Will the computer tell them no? I assume it would have to, because you can’t scientifically manage resources if you are always saying yes to everything people want. And if it does say no, how will this not lead to a market, as such scarcity has lead to throughout history?

“”“Scarcity” of the necessities of live will not exist. We will be able to predict scarcity of natural goods and services in advance through trend analysis and come up with synthetic alternatives if necessary.””"

If only we actually had such technology within grasp it’d be awesome. Fantasy is nice and all…but reality always ruins the fun. This sort of complex technology is nowhere in sight. And by in sight, I don’t mean no one is trying, I mean no one has the slightest clue how to make it a reality, let alone the fact that the means to allocate all the resources in such a divided world (dictators, nationalism, religions,distrust, racism, etc) is a little harder to acheive than saying “we promise it’ll be awesome, gimmie gimmie”.

—-

@Kurt

I ask question about authority over resources because I often hear from this movement that there will be no governments, no property, no laws. Therefore there is no legal channels to make any decisions with. Without proper channels, it can lead to confusion, chaos, divisions and even violence.

It’s not that easy to give everyone food, water, etc. There are far too many obstacles in the way and this movement seems to offer very little solution. How will you sway those despots in Africa to give up their power? Or solve religious fundamentalism? And even more importantly, how will you invent the technology that allows the entire world economy to be managed without markets? Will we just let capitalism invent it then use it? Because at the moment its capitalism that’s inventing all sorts of technology (some of which this movement likes to boast about), and this movement hasn’t shown the slightest means to accomplish anything remotely close to it, let alone beyond it.

I have repeatedly heard that there will be no laws, no government, etc from numerous members. I’m pretty sure Fresco even mentions it in Addendum. And when they do acknowledge the need for some authority, the design of this authority is so vague that I can hardly call it a solution. Of course we all want a perfect system, but without reliable plans, how can it be considered anything more than a nice thought?

Same for property. I’ve heard it time and time again that there is no property, therefore nothing to protect it in any legal sense like today. And how can you say no one will want someone else’s house? What if all the beachfront property in Southern Italy is taken, or they want it because someone famous used to live in it, or it has the best backyard, etc, etc…what’s stopping someone from taking my home?

People will want to own a great many things. Like things with personal importance, and as I said before privacy. What if I wanted an entire Villa to myself and my family? I will pay and claim my right to have that privacy. Ownership will happen because people will value a great many different things. You cannot say such things don’t make people happy/fufilled because humanity is far to diverse and complex to have such a unison thought process (especially when there is no overarching authority figure to educate them).

And even more, what happens if a community has a bunch of valuable resources on their property, and they refuse to share. The reason for not sharing could be anything from fear of running out, not trusting the system because they believe its controlled by some secret society (Illuminati, Jews, etc), or maybe they are gods chosen people. The possibilities are endless when talking about billions of free thinking individuals.

Ultimately I just don’t see any reality behind this movement. Anyone can imagine technology that does limitless things. Everyone has similar dreams, but its not something new and profound. Its not that I see no problems with the world today, it’s that I see no substance in this movement. There are so many gray areas in areas that must be very clear and concise to even have a chance at going anywhere. And I think before anyone considers this system obsolete, there actually needs to be a workable and detailed system to replace it and outperform it. We can’t go in with lots of uncertainty… as history has shown, that could result in things becoming much worse.

There a million “solutions” out there. But until this one, or any of the others, actually produce something beyond good intentions I cannot support them.

Anyway, this has taken up more time then I initially planned. I got lots of other school stuff to do so I think its best I leave now. It was fun. Take care.

Thanks for your time. Parting clarifications- I’ll try not to make any points or argue the last word in here:

there will be a transition period to all of this to allow the adjustments you are talking about. No one is expecting any person or country to just shift over 100% in 1 day,1 year or even 1 decade really. Just lose the fear of moving in that direction.

It will only take one or two countries applying the resource economy and scientific method to as much as they can with what they have. They will initially still have some sort of money and trade thing going with countries not on board. if it works, the population of other countries will demand their governments jump on board. Thats it. That is the only idea. Use facts not opinions to make large scale policy

I can point many worse questions toward our current system and the answers we have now are repulsive.

it really appears as if we have maybe out grown capitalism technologically. lets figure out what can we come up with to replace it before we have to out of desperation. Right now we are driving off a cliff. Endless consumption with finite resources has lead to the death of more than one society.

Again, thanks for your consideration. Its sad to see people so cynical about changing anything though.

I suggest you do some reading on human behavior, the effects of social stratification (What the US is famous for) and technological unemployment, and our current monetary system, they play a key role in demonstrating why the world is in the current state of affairs.

The major problem that needs to be understand is this: We have the technology to create an abundance of energy, food and clean water, proper shelter, clean sources of transportation and medical services for the ENTIRE PLANET! BUT we don’t have the money.

Up ! I noticed as well that there were no informations about that in google news, almost nothing… I’m very surprised, an event present on all the planet is not a subject for medias ? usually yes.

… braking and entering.

LOLz